This week’s conversation recorded in 2011 is both timely and untimely. Timely – as we exit from Afghanistan – because in her book When Johnny and Jane Come Marching Home, Paula Caplan asks why it’s a mental illness to be devastated by war and urges us to connect with veterans and listen to their stories, one-on-one. And untimely, because Paula died of cancer July 21st. She was both one of the warmest, most generous people I’ve known, and at the same time, a consistently fierce and passionate advocate for justice. Three words I believe often motivated Paula: “It’s not fair.” And those three words have seldom felt more true.

Need some good news about climate? I’m excited to speak with economist ROBERT POLLIN and union leader DAVE CAMPBELL, Secretary-Treasurer of United Steelworkers Local 675 in Carson CA, about the California Climate Jobs Plan. Initiated and paid for by labor unions, written by Pollin and others, it pursues the state’s clean energy goals through 2030, by creating a million new jobs and offering a fair transition for those who will lose theirs. You can learn more at californiaclimatejobsplan.com

I’m excited to talk with JULIE BATTILANA, professor at Harvard Business School and the Harvard Kennedy School, and founder of its Social Innovation and Change Initiative, about her new book POWER FOR ALL. It’s nothing less than a call for individuals not only to understand and assert power in their own lives, but also to collectively use this power to remake society by rebalancing existing power relationships – including racial, gender, financial and political. To learn more, go to Powerforallbook.com

In Last Best Hope, GEORGE PACKER explores four narratives that he says now dominate American (political) life: Free America, a nation of separate individuals that serves the interests of corporations and the wealthy; Smart America, the world view of Silicon Valley, the Clintons, and the professional elite; Real America, the white Christian nationalism of the heartland; and Just America, which sees citizens as members of identity groups who either inflict or suffer oppression. Though they may dominate, these narratives clearly do not speak for all, nor do any of them offer a viable path to restoring or sustaining a thriving democracy. What narrative might?

The UN’s latest report paints a frightening picture of the time we’ve wasted and the urgency with which we must act to avert the worst of climate change. The daily news tells us that the unvaccinated are welcome hosts for the deadly evolution of Covid19 – though they may not believe in either. Journalist and author CHRIS MOONEY has been tracking the costs of science denial for years – long before Trumps presidence. Here’s our 2011 conversation re his articles, THE SCIENCE OF WHY WE DON’T BELIEVE SCIENCE and THE REALITY GAP.